Tuesday, 26 October 2010

Mr. Steadson continues to prove the validity of what we have said

Shyam
I see that the unmasked 'Amway' Lord Haw Haw, Mr. 'IBOFB' (a.k.a. 'Insider', 'Icerat', etc.) Steadson, has reappeared on your Blog (no doubt, after taking more instructions from his criminal associates). The poor little lad is still steadfastly pretending that he hasn't spent all his waking-hours denying reality on behalf of billionaire racketeers (apparently, in return for no material benefit), when the evidence for this, is massive and conclusive.
Mr. Steadson is self-evidently a liar; for it is a well-documented fact that he has been monitoring the Net. for years (on behalf of his criminal associates). Each time any free-thinking individual has attempted to challenge the authenticity of the pernicious 'Amway/MLM Business Opportunity' lie, Mr. Steadson has been there (in one of his many disguises) following the same reality-inverting, propaganda tactics as those employed by the billionaire bosses of the 'Third Reich.'
‘If you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.' (Joseph Goebbels)
Since the pernicious 'Amway/MLM Business Opportunity' lie was first released on an unsuspecting American public in the 1950s, it has temporarily infected the minds of tens of millions of individuals around the world and spawned countless copy-cats. Far from bringing its deluded core-adherents 'Total Financial Freedom,' as they were led to believe, the 'MLM' lie has actually caused widespread debt, destitution, depression, dissociation, divorce and even (in the most extreme cases) death.
Trying to warn the public about the hidden dangers of the 'MLM' lie, is what the 'Amway' Lord Haw Haw arbitrarily defines as 'attacking Amway.' Laughably, each time Mr. Steadson has made one of his endless, reality-inverting, masked-appearances on the Net., he has actually proved the validity of what we have said.
David Brear (copyright 2010)

20 comments:

IBOFB said...

"a well documented fact" ... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Are the quality of all your supposed "facts" of similar ridiculously poor standard?

That would explain a lot

Phil_Bradley said...

IBOFB, Do you have facts to support that Amway isn't a Cult where brainwashed Lemmings line the pockets of those at the top of the food chain? I see you everywhere there is a negative opinion about Amway yet you never try to disprove the FACTS about the Amway scam. You are either just another brainwashed Ambot or you are working for Amway.

Either way please feel free to prove the following facts are wrong:
1) 66% of IBO's drop out the first year
2) Many high level IBOs make much more on selling promotional and motivational materials to their down-line than they actually do by selling products. Dateline NBC uncovered this interesting bit of information in 2004.
3) Because of FTC Regulations, Amway is required to report how much each of their IBOs make. In 2005, the mean average income from Quixtar for each IBO was only $115 per month. Keep in mind that this is before expenses and Tools ie. standing order, travel, FED etc etc.
4) Many IBOs use deceptive marketing techniques. People in the business who are trying to create a down line are taught to use vague and deceptive means in order to lure potential IBOs into business meetings.
5) Products which Amway sells and markets are consistently more expensive than their big box store alternatives. For every consumable item, there is a comparable product which can be bought cheaper at WalMart or CostCo. You have to pay in profit, a percentage for the IBO, as well as shipping. These added cost are built into the prices of Amway products, which will always make them more expensive than their big box store alternatives.

IBOFB said...

Phil,
Do you have facts to support that Amway *is* a cult etc etc.
I have dealt with plenty of facts over and over. Have you reviewed my website, The Truth About Amway

Your claims -
1)66% of IBO's drop out the first year

False, but only just. Data provided in the Team vs Quixtar case in California shows the figure is 69.5%. This is *lower* than is typical in direct sales industry, with salesforce turnover exceeding 100% (see Kennedy(2001) Salesforce turnover in the direct sales industry for a discussion on this)

Interestingly, the same California case showed that 71.9% of those who didn't renew didn't even place an order after joining. This also means that the vast majority of people who actually did something with their membership as basic as placing an order, continued with the relationship.

High turnover is an entirely logical outcome of a business model deliberately designed to have low barriers to entry. Anyone can try it, at low to no risk. Anyone is just as free to decide it's not for them - and most do.

That's not a problem (unless of course your revenue comes from it), and indeed high turnover is evidence against your thesis that it's a "cult" of "brainwashed lemmings"

2)Many high level IBOs earning more from "tools"

Some do, yes - as any reasonable person would expect. Experts in many fields earn far more from sharing their expertise than from their original activities. That said, there is no evidence at all to support the idea it's the majority, and indeed plenty of evidence it's not true (eg court documents including the Fish lawsuit, Kosage divorce documents, Duncan bankruptcy proceedings).

Again, even if true, how does this make it a cult of brainwashed lemmings?

IBOFB said...

3)earnings

Did you bother to read the definition of who is included in "active" for the purpose of calculating the average earnings? We know, from Team vs Quixtar and also BERR vs Amway that the vast majority of people who register with Amway never do anything substantial to earn an income from Amway. However, if they simply attended a meeting just once in the whole year or even just asked somebody once to buy something, without even making the sale, they're included in the sample for calculating "average". BERR vs Amway actually revealed that (in the UK at least), more people made a profit from Amway than actually did the minimum recommended to earn a profit!

It would appear you believe that people who are doing nothing should be making money? It sounds like you're almost disappointed that it's not some kind of "scheme" like a pyramid.

You may want to review Amway IBOs get all their products free plus extra cash!

4)many use deceptive marketing techinques

Depends how you define "many", but yup, this sure does happen, and I wish it didn't. I regularly speak out against such behaviour, even when relatively minor and ask people who encounter unprofessional behaviour to report the person to Amway.

IBOFB said...

5) Products which Amway sells and markets are consistently more expensive than their big box store alternatives. For every consumable item, there is a comparable product which can be bought cheaper at WalMart or CostCo.

Really? Amway's two major brands are Nutrilite and Artistry. Which products are comparable to them at WalMart and CostCo? "critics" regularly spout this canard, but when I check out their claims, they fail -
* Anatomy of Deceit – an Amway Critic’s price comparisons
*Amway UK price comparisons

You have to pay in profit, a percentage for the IBO, as well as shipping. These added cost are built into the prices of Amway products, which will always make them more expensive than their big box store alternatives.

One could just as easily claim, for traditional distribution - "You have to pay in profit, a percentage for the exporters/importers/regional distributors/wholesalers/retailers/advertises. These added cost are built into the prices of Brand X products, which will always make them more expensive than their direct sales alternative"

Some products are suited to direct sales, some are not. Some are more efficiently marketed through that channel, some are not. Like any supplier, Amway is not always the best value, and there's a number of products I neither purchase nor promote.

Gee, my brainwashing mustn't have worked too well! :/

rocket said...

1) Since the dropout rate is lower than typically in the industry, that makes it OK? Well, who can argue with that!

2) Calling leaders "experts" is a tad disingenuous since there are some who have been in bankruptcy proceedings. What IBOFB (typically again) doesn't address is the simple fact that the tools profits are hidden or minimized by the very people who sell them.

3) Ahhhh. Hiding behind the dismal earnings statistic with the "active" definition. Not new, nor helpful to IBOFB's defense. You mean this business is so great that people get in it to do nothing? Nice Advertisement!

4) If you call one blog post of hundreds "typical" then I guess that would be accurate. Oh yes! And report unethical behaviour for Amway to do....let's see......oh, yes! NOTHING! Well played Steadson. Coincidentally, nothing is the amount of water many of your arguments hold!

5) So because Steadson thinks Amway has no comparable products that makes it so? Wow! He must really be smart....or egotistical. Why don't we let the public decide whether or not Artistry compares to other cosmetics? O! They seem to have already since LESS THAN 5% of products are sold to people not in Amway. AS far as your import/export etc. EXCEPT that AMWAY can lower their prices like they did in the UK, and simply choose not to! Why? I'm sure David Steadson will have an answer, but whether or not it will be true will be up for debate.

And this all works so well that David Steadson AKA IBOFB has no proof of success other than hitting the 100 PV mark.

*clap*clap*clap*

I guess everyone else is wrong, and the people who aren't fully supportive of Amway are foolish people for not being in it!

By the way, calling Steadson's website "The Truth About Amway" is pretty much the same as calling a fat guy tiny.

rocket said...

1) Since the dropout rate is lower than typically in the industry, that makes it OK? Well, who can argue with that!

2) Calling leaders "experts" is a tad disingenuous since there are some who have been in bankruptcy proceedings. What IBOFB (typically again) doesn't address is the simple fact that the tools profits are hidden or minimized by the very people who sell them.

3) Ahhhh. Hiding behind the dismal earnings statistic with the "active" definition. Not new, nor helpful to IBOFB's defense. You mean this business is so great that people get in it to do nothing? Nice Advertisement!

4) If you call one blog post of hundreds "typical" then I guess that would be accurate. Oh yes! And report unethical behaviour for Amway to do....let's see......oh, yes! NOTHING! Well played Steadson. Coincidentally, nothing is the amount of water many of your arguments hold!

5) So because Steadson thinks Amway has no comparable products that makes it so? Wow! He must really be smart....or egotistical. Why don't we let the public decide whether or not Artistry compares to other cosmetics? O! They seem to have already since LESS THAN 5% of products are sold to people not in Amway. AS far as your import/export etc. EXCEPT that AMWAY can lower their prices like they did in the UK, and simply choose not to! Why? I'm sure David Steadson will have an answer, but whether or not it will be true will be up for debate.

rocket said...

And this all works so well that David Steadson AKA IBOFB has no proof of success other than hitting the 100 PV mark.

*clap*clap*clap*

I guess everyone else is wrong, and the people who aren't fully supportive of Amway are foolish people for not being in it!

By the way, calling Steadson's website "The Truth About Amway" is pretty much the same as calling a fat guy tiny.

rocket said...

Oh, by the way.....


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Steadson's defence of Amway always gives me a chuckle!

Thanks again Dave!

IBOFB said...

Rocket continues with his normal dishonest ways. He knows that Artistry has been independently assessed by market research firms as being of similar class to brands like Estee Lauder etc, and thus not a walmart competitor.

He then decides to judge Artistry as a market failure by (a) arbitrarily excluding from "sales" anyone who likes Artistry enough they figure it would be smart to get a discount and (b) simply assuming nobody else buys it, with no evidence to support his belief. (c) ignoring independent analysis by respected market research firms showing Artistry is one of the best selling prestige brands in the world.

But hey, why believe independent international market research firms when you can just make sh** up instead?

You like throwing my name around rocket, when are you going to stop being a hypocritical coward and tell us yours?

rocket said...

How does Artistry compare to Este lauder price wise? Like anyone cares because that's not the MAIN issue. You didn't address the main issues. I know it's deliberate, just all too predictable.

Out of all the rebuttals, you go with Artistry being unfairly compared? That's it?

I guess that says more about your argument than anything. Always nice when you decide to try and address the issues.

Not at all surprising that you continue to do more harm than good with your tactics!

Shucks, eh?

IBOFB said...

Too lazy to even click on a link, Rocket? Artistry is generally cheaper than Estee Lauder, as I showed.

C'mon coward, you insist on making this personal - so who are you?

Phil_Bradley said...

Regardless of the amount of people that drop out after the first year as the sad reality is that enough people stay in and are adicted to the idea that they will become financially independent. Not only do they stay in, they become blind to the reality that they are spending more than they are making in a so called business designed to keep them plugged in to so much propoganda that they must pay for or be rejected by those they admire (their upline).

The Dictionary Definition of a Cult is...
An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
A group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc

IBOFB, the problem is people DO get in and DO something. They sponsor people, sell product and duplicate everything their upline are doing yet money they do not have is sucked out of them for Tools and Events and over priced product to make their monthly 100PV.

A few Real Price comparisons....

XS Sports drinks 24 16 oz bottles = $30.00
Gatorade 24 20oz bottles = $15.95 (at Costco)

XS energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $23.99
Red Bull 8 oz (case of 24) $31.30 (at Costco)

Double X (31 day supply) $78.05
Multi Vitamins (3 month supply) $24.80 (At Costco)

SA8 6.6 pound (100 loads) $22.75
Kirkland (5 gallon bucket from Costco) $15.99

Meadowbrook bath tissue 48 rolls $29.99
Kirkland bath tissue 36 rolls $11.99 (Costco)

Smart menu Pasta 12 – 16 oz. Bags = $24.99
Golden Grain Pasta 12 16oz. Boxes = $8.99 (Costco)

Smart menu chunk light tuna 24 6 oz cans $25.99
Coral chunk light tuna 12 6 oz. cans $5.99 (Costco)

Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $19.99
Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $11.99 (Costco)

Artistry cheaper than Estee Lauder?
The fact is Estee Lauder is a well known brand available everywhere and when you add in the shipping costs I doubt Artistry is cheaper.
Stand in cosmetics department and do a poll to see if any one has even heard of Artistry Cosmetics.

rocket said...

Hey Steadson, I have a personal policy of not giving a rat's ass about any links or information you provide.

Guess Why?

'Cause I think you're full of shit about anything Amway. I think Phil Bradley has given a pretty good indicator of how comparable Amway's prices are.

But who am I to argue with a 100 PV'er?

And speaking of cowards, you're the one who doesn't allow opposing views on your blog.

Yet you're all about the truth?

Yeah, your truth about Amway is pretty much a joke.

Piss off, your bullshit doesn't work here.

Karen said...

Can any of you explain why respected business people like the owner of Carl's Junior, Frank Luntz, Robert Kiyosaki, author of the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and many others feel that the Amway business model is a great example. Do you know that after the court battle Amway has been held up as the industry standard for multi level businesses? The Better Business Bureau has given Amway an A+ rating, which is the highest rating possible.

Many articles have espoused the advantages of the Amway business model. One cannot possibly achieve more financial rewards with other companies because their structure are set up so differently. Yes, one is to try to get others involved in order to help more people become financially free. And you have not been to the meetings that focus on the products, their quality, how to get customers.

Why do more people not have more customers? Some are just not so sure or are afraid to talk to friends, neighbors, etc. because of people like you and sites like yours! I have several downline who do not do any customer volume. I have continually offered to help them to show people the quality of Amway products. People who try them continually are surprised at their quality. Our supplements are grown on organic farms where the fruits and vegetables are harvested and processed within hours. These products are made in the US, unlike many other inferior products.

How can you argue with a company that increased sales up to $8billion last year? More markets are opening up all the time. The people in China and Korea are really doing well. Why? They do not have many other choices. We Americans are spoiled and would rather stay home and play Farmville on facebook than try to help our own families and other families achieve financial independence!! Then when we do try to do something to help our families, folks like you talk about how its a cult that brainwashes people.

I like being around positive people who are excited about their future instead of those who focus on doom and gloom and want the government to take care of them.

Amway also recognizes veterans at Free Enterprise Days. They fight for our right to be free to choose to participate in the free enterprise system. We focus on God, family and country. Also, Amway and Amway IBOs have contributed large amounts of money to various charitable organizations such as the Haiti problems, Easter Seals, and many others. Many of the folks who earn lots of money also give much away to charities and participating in mission trips, etc. So tell me the downside!

Karen said...

How can you argue with a company that increased sales up to $8billion last year? More markets are opening up all the time. The people in China and Korea are really doing well. Why? They do not have many other choices. We Americans are spoiled and would rather stay home and play Farmville on facebook than try to help our own families and other families achieve financial independence!! Then when we do try to do something to help our families, folks like you talk about how its a cult that brainwashes people.

I like being around positive people who are excited about their future instead of those who focus on doom and gloom and want the government to take care of them.

Amway also recognizes veterans at Free Enterprise Days. They fight for our right to be free to choose to participate in the free enterprise system. We focus on God, family and country. Also, Amway and Amway IBOs have contributed large amounts of money to various charitable organizations such as the Haiti problems, Easter Seals, and many others. Many of the folks who earn lots of money also give much away to charities and participating in mission trips, etc. So tell me the downside!

Karen said...

Oh, by the way, Sandra Bullock and Miss America know a lot about Artistry products because they use them. Artistry's new creme luxury has been given an award as the best new age management product.

rocket said...

The downside Karen?

Very few people make actual profit with Amway

Very few people actually sell products to a customer. MAny feel it's because the products are hopelessly overpriced.

Do you know what the BBB does? It doesn't suggest that Amway is a good opportunity for making money. Maybe check what it is (not upline, check the BBB website to find out what it does) before repeating what your sponsor says.

I'm pretty sure Sandra Bulloch was compensated for any endorsement of Amway products. That's nothing new, nor she suggest it's a good opportunity to make money from. Ironically, Sandra Bulloch has made more just endorsing Artistry (not Amway) than the vast majority of IBO's IMO.

You can be around positive people without being in Amway. Sheesh, does Amway and your upline own the rights to be positive?

You sound pretty much like every other IBO Karen. You suggest that because people aren't in Amway they squander their time away on facebook and don't have any purpose in their lives. That's a dangerous and self serving attitude which is pretty much par for the course.

Amway North American growth is flat at best, and overseas growth makes no difference to your bottom line. You are in business to profit, which is a concept eluding many IBO's after expenses.

As for arguing with a company doing over 8 Billion?

Ever hear of British Petroleum?

Phil_Bradley said...

Karen,
Yet another Amway programmed response.
Best new age management product? Hilarious!
Great endorsements as well,
Robert Kiyosaki, author of the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is a great example of a person that is not who he appears to be http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2010/road_to_rich_dad/main.html , much like the Diamonds whose pockets brainwashed IBO's line.

Your statement that "many articles have espoused the advantages of the Amway business model" is true and they are largely written by people with some affiliation with Amway. There are many many articles not to mention the 60 Minutes episode that expose the true facts about this business.


Why do more people not have more customers?
Amway's products are Expensive compared to products you can buy at the store. Who in the world wants to pay more for products that are no better and sometimes substandard to those you can purchase anywhere?
There are many other choices for organic supplements made in the USA that are available any where for much less than Amway's. Funny how the only positive reviews on the net about Nutrilite are from Amway sites or by someone who is obviously an IBO.
How can you argue with a company that increased sales up to $8billion last year?
Alticor had sales of US$8.4 billion for 2009 a 2.3 percent increase over 2008. Sadly the operations in Greater China and Southeast Asia, was reportedly responsible for more than one third of its $8.4 billion in 2009 revenue which means Amway would have suffered a sales decrease of 30% if it wasn't for the opening of the new frontier.
Amway sales in North America especially have been decreasing for
years, Diamonds have been disappearing, going bankrupt and relying on the sale of Non-Amway motivational Tools for income.
If you are an IBO in North America, you are essentially a sales person involved with a company that suffered almost a 1 third sales decrease in markets comparable to the previous year, not something I would be proud of and a sign that people DO NOT want your over priced product.
"I like being around positive people who are excited about their future instead of those who focus on doom and gloom and want the government to take care of them."
Yes Karen, if we aren't in Amway or left Amway we must be losers who aren't excited about our future or want the government to take care of us. This is what you are brain washed to believe, everyone else is a loser. It might be hard to believe but the richest people in America are not in Amway and probably don't fit your ridiculous perception of those not in the Amway Cult.

As for the charities and such that Amway supports, doesn't every company. I know Ford, Microsoft, HP, IBM all have charities that they support.

Phil_Bradley said...

As I expected... no response from the Ambots. I imagine they have run out of Canned IBO statements. I guess you can only warp reality so much.